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03-01-2011, 14:50
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חבר מתאריך: 19.09.05
הודעות: 1,280
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דיון על קלעים אמריקאים
I recently read came upon this great discussion that contains lots of information from experienced US soldiers and marines that had served as Squad Designated Marksmen (equivalent to IDF term kalaim) in combat http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70417
I think that the information and opinions provided in the discussion will be of interest to many people here. Some of the issues they discuss will sound familiar to IDF veterans and others perhaps serve as food for thought as to how to improve our own training or employment.
Some of the same topics have been covered previously here on
XM-25 משגר רימונים בקליבר 25 מ"מ
Improved 5.56mm for USMC and new "ideal caliber" presentation
Why don't kalaim use long M16A4
Some highlights from the discussion (my emphasis in red)
ציטוט:
Wes, for the 7.62 vs 5.56 debate, I have been lucky I guess because everytime I have seen hits on target with both rounds, the targets hasn't got up. I have however seen some long firefights where a lot of ammo gets expended. The M16A4 with MK262 as the primary load, can still fire green tip from a standard rifleman
So for a Regular unit, far from the base on Patrol with minimum support, I prefer 5.56. Logistically, it makes more sense. Yes I can delink rounds from the "most casualty producing weapon" to feed my 7.62 SDM rifle. Or I can select a rifle that, in average hands, delivers the same effects, AKA removing threats, that reduces my tail
The average Soldier with minimum training is not more effective with a bigger round. A miss is a miss. As I stated, every target I have seen hit with both rounds has ceased to be a threat. I will leave the scientific stuff for the errornet
As an SDM you're still a grunt, and there were a few times when I had to clear rooms, guard prisoners, and other tasks where the size and optic were far from desirable. While I was lucky to get 3 weeks of school taught by excellent instructors, the ideal SDM weapon needs to have a simple enough operation and optic that any squared-away trigger puller can be taught how to properly utilize it with minimal training. The ACOG isn't perfect, but it's extremely easy and fast to use for both ranging and hitting targets, and is MUCH more durable than a variable mil-dot optic. I've seen two Leupolds quickly ruined by poor handling that wouldn't have even caused a loss of zero on an ACOG
A good SDM rifle isn't supposed to be sexy, it's supposed to be make an infantryman with minimal training effective to 600mI was my platoon's SDM for my first 2 months or so in-country, before I was "promoted" to SAW gunner. I went to LRM (Long Range Marksmanship) school at Ft Campbell, taught by instructors from Benning, for 3 weeks of instruction covering shooting, range estimation, and target detection. Our issue rifle was an M14 "upgraded" with a Sage EBR chassis and a 7.62 ACOG. Of course I had to use a 5.56 M4 ACOG because someone managed to break our 7.62 model previously. Luckily, when I got overseas I managed to acquire a TPE (Theatre Provided Equipment) 10X fixed Leupold. There was no supply of M118LR to be had so I had to delink belted M80 ball. It was still plenty accurate out to 600M or so, and probably could have pushed it further, but had limited range time and I was just glad to get it zeroed
I think the Brits have it right, the LMT .308 with the right optic and training would be an ideal SDM weapon. It's accurate, reliable, and not too bulky. It is heavy, but you can't have everything, esp in 7.62x51. Plus an ACOG properly calibrated and zeroed can get hits on target fast without having to get all the training on mil-dots and worrying about DOPE, remember SDM's aren't snipers and aren't supposed to be snipers, we're grunts with a little talent and training, that's all
I was an SDM for part of my deployment, OIF2, mainly worked in Baghdad. Training was a one or two day familiarization with the M14. It spent most of the time in the trunk and I carried my M4/ACOGregular infantrymen who are tasked to provide precision fire out to 600m...
Most people don't get this simple but limiting factor
The SDM is not a sniper, doesn't need a sniper rifle, and doesn't have time to train like a sniper. Pick an M4/A4 that shoots well, drop an ACOG on it and you have a weapon that is more capable than the training time available makes an average SDM. The M4 Sniper, AKA Recce would be the next step if training time and skill can be increased. I think the MK12 is too heavy and the scope to big to do the regular infantry job, same goes for a 7.62 rifle. It would make them a liability in close or urban terrain
Absolutely correct. The United States Army trains basic rifle qualification to 300 Meters. That is the common standard, and even then we suck at it
Not all Soldiers are gun guys. In fact very, very, very few are
This is one of three M4 carbines built at the USAMU as prototypes (one for the 82nd; one for the 101st; and one remaining at the AMU). 18-inch stainless mid-length with Geissele trigger and Daniel Defense M4-mid rail
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Note that the last quote by a guy nicknamed Sinister that was the commander of the US Army Marksmenship Unit.
I would love to see a rifle with an 18in barrel similar to the prototype configuration as our DMR, instead of the standard or rebuilt M4 that we use today
For reference, here are two DMR configurations in US service that I posted a few years ago
US Army SDM accurized M16A4 from AR15.com
USMC SAM-R accurized M16A4 from MilitaryPhotos.com -- The mk12 or SPR configuration mentioned in the linked post are similar to this one
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Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school
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