29-04-2008, 19:20
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חבר מתאריך: 20.06.07
הודעות: 17
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Israeli Arabs and Trojan Horses
I usually expect a higher standard of discussion in this forum, and don't respond to this kind of nonsense (not Guy Sagie's but the respondents here). However, in this case, we need a bit of sense knocked into soft heads.
On the basis of what do you say that "Israeli Arabs are not loyal to the country'? Unquestionably they have a different definition of how the country should be. You and I also disagree on that (and no, I don't support the rabid Left anymore than I support the rabid Right, and I do beleive we have a right to a Jewish state, here). But let's talk facts. I was present during 1973 when a delegation of Israeli Arabs came into KATSKHAR and volunteered their services. Yes, they were willing to fight: obviously they _did_ feel loyalty to the country. So at least the immediate _factual_ evidence is 1:0 against you, since all you can produce is rumor and speculation. That the Israeli government, and the Jewish majority has not used the famous (and, insofar as I can discern, often absent) 'Jewish brain' to harness this willingness is a mark of our stupidity, not their disloyalty. Let us look at the issue another way. Statistically speaking, there is a smaller percentage of Jewish Israelis who have been involved in anti-Israeli spying, but it is still there. So, do we decide therefore that all Jewish Israelis are just waiting to become a Fifth Column? To make things more interesting, a very large percentage of these spies and would-be spies come from the (former) Soviet Union. In fact, I suspect that A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF EX-RUSSIAN JEWS (COMPARED TO THEIR NUMBERS IN THE POPULATION) HAVE SPIED AGAINST ISRAEL THAN THE PERCENTAGE OF ARAB SPIES (COMPARED TO THEIR NUMBER IN THE ISRAELI-ARAB POPULATION). From what you have said then, I am to understand that the ex-Soviet immigrants are a suspect group, right? Now, I'm prepared to be wrong about these percentages -- it is a FACT that you can check, and prove or refute -- but before I open my big yap and say 'they are all a Trojan horse' I want some numbers and proof. Yes, many Israeli-Arabs support (sometimes minimally, sometimes partially, sometimes to a great part, sometimes wholly) the positions of the Palestinians/Arab states. The motivations and modes of expression differ, and cannot be lumped together. At least PART of the reason (and it will differ from one individual to another) is that the Israeli state has done very little, and the Jewish Israeli people even less, to make them feel at home (and please, save me the old nonsense that 'their lives would have been far worse in an Arab-run state: that insults all our intelligence. They are ISRAELIS, and their standard for comparison is other Israelis). Its not that we are the prime cause of Arab-Israeli opinion, but that if we had the brains we claim we have, we would have done something to ensure they are not opposed to the state's ethos, because it would include them as well. So why don't we all stick to military issues, of which some here know a great deal, and a few much less, and leave the far more complicated issues of motivations and social actions to the experts? You and I will obviously never agree politically, but lets at least agree that we should deal in facts, not babyish opinions based on little more than fear of others. |
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